Daniel Choudry (the Sales Warrior): His rise from a child rebel to one of Africa’s most renowned sales experts | The Jim Kleiber Show

[Jim] Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of the Jim Kleiber Show. This may be a new segment I'm calling Jim and Friends, or it may not be. We'll see how it goes. But I have a friend with me today named Daniel Chaudhry. I pronounced your last name correct, right?

[Daniel] Okay, good. You got it right.

[Jim] After so many years, I should have. And Daniel and I have known each other for quite a few years now. 18, maybe?

[Daniel] 2018? Yeah, 18.

[Jim] It was 2018.

[Daniel] Gosh, seven years. Wow.

[Jim] And just a little introduction. Daniel and I met at an ISEC alumni conference in Uganda, in Kampala, Uganda. And Daniel was not part of ISEC, but he was invited to speak there just because he's a very charismatic MC. And we are very grateful that he was invited to speak there and dance there and that we became friends afterwards. And we have shared many a moment over the last couple years but still not as many moments as I would like but I'm glad to have him on the show Daniel, thanks for coming on the show is there anything you want to start off with maybe give a little bit of a background on how you ended up in Kampala and

[Daniel] Then we can go for it Hey JK, thank you so much for having me on the show I like the name of the show Jim Claver and Friends I think that that fits very well into what we're trying to do here.

I'm Daniel Chaudhry, a.k.a. The Sales Warrior, a.k.a. Mr. DC, a.k.a. The Sales Gladiator.

Yeah, you could add in a few as well. So I'm very passionate about sales. By now, I guess you know that already because, come on, who introduces themselves as the Sales Warrior, the Sales Gladiator, the Sales Sinotrack? I mean, this is how my staff calls me sometimes in office, so I'm so happy to be in the show. A little bit about me.

I've been in sales, this is now 18 years. As a consultant for 11 years, as a direct salesperson for Give and Take, eight years.

Yeah, eight years, seven, eight years. So I've been a teacher in sales as well, retail marketing, international marketing at the university. You said I should introduce myself. So I'm just trying to look at the hangover. I come from the northern part of Uganda.

I'm a child rebel. I was abducted as a young kid, 12-year-old kid. I had a very tough time as a child soldier. But that also taught me coping mechanisms, survival instinct.

Just to have a thick skin and as we navigate through the daily challenges of life.

Came to the city for my A-level studies in 2005, never looked back. As I speak now, I thought to lead in the cell space in East Africa, actually. If you searched Daniel Chaudhry on Google, probably to bring you quite a bit about some of the works that I've been able to do over the years. So that's the brief I can do. I am a dad for amazing children.

Yeah, so stop there. Don't ask me more questions about the kids or anything like that. So, dad, don't bother.

Yeah, over to you, JK.

[Jim] So, one story that you've told me over the years that I really enjoy is how you motivated yourself to get to Kampala. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?

[Daniel] Yeah, so back in 96, I think, we had a teacher, teacher Anthony Opoa. I never used to like going to school, interestingly. My grandfather used to say people go to school so that they can go to university and then they get a certificate and then they use the certificate to get a job. When they get a job, they pay them salaries and then that salary is used to buy food. So we literally go through school just so we can eat better meals and better locations and things like that. So it's like as long as you go to the farm and you work really hard, food will always be there, and then you don't have a problem. So I didn't really have an interest to go to school. That changed actually entirely. There was a paradigm shift. When one morning I went to school, the teacher that we hated the most, our maths teacher.

Turned out to be my greatest inspiration and even today I'm here in Kampala doing everything that I'm doing the genesis is back then with teacher Anthony Pua, so that one morning we came to school and then this is a teacher who used to come to teach us in t-shirts, torn in slippers like come on, we never loved the subject, we didn't like him clearly, But that day he came up all dressed up, you know, he's put on a tie, white shirt, black trousers, black shoes. And he said, you know, children, we are training you now that when you get to primary seven, I mean, our education system, hopefully our listeners and our viewers can be able to follow this. But our education system goes up to primary seven and you go to secondary. So he said, our school has never got a first grade in primary seven. So he's teaching us, he was training us that when we get to P7 our lot, somebody should get a first grade or many of us should get first grade and then he said, whoever will get a first grade in P7 you will get a chance to go to the capital city of Uganda, so he asked us to respond in chorus, what is the name of the capital city of Uganda we all scream, Kampala, it's like Kampala it's like yes, Kampala is the most beautiful part of Uganda, when in Kampala there is no poverty when in Kampala you'll see a lot of cars when in Kampala.

Night time is as clear as day time because there is electricity and during that time we didn't have electricity in our school or in our village, so it painted a picture of how beautiful Kampala was it's like in Kampala you see the tallest building in Uganda called Crescent Towers the building is so tall that it touches the clouds come on I thought it was like some kind of Trump Tower you know me and Trump Okay, I had to throw that on it.

He talked about the biggest lake, the biggest freshwater lake in the world, Lake Victoria, that passes three countries, and then there's a big ship that docks in a place called Potbell. It's like you just get a fast grid in P7. You'll not only go to Kampala, you'll go and enter into the ship. And my village is along the road. The plane used to go to Europe. So every day you see a lot of planes passing by. So it's like inside the plane is like paradise, And inside the plane, you want to take some juice, you just press a nob next to your chair and say, juice, a robotic mechanism will bring some juice to you. But Eli, I mean, at the time as a primary for kid, you can imagine.

We didn't think it was a lie. We thought, okay, this must be true.

And that man really changed my life because from that day, I became very focused. He said, if you want to get a first grade in P7, there are certain things you have to do. You have to come to school early in the morning. During assembly time, you have to be in front of the assemblies. During class time, you have to put your hand up to ask a question to teachers or answer questions that teachers ask. And no wonder today I'm a public speaker. The entire Genesis started then.

So I became focused He gave me a total paradigm shift And then I became obsessed with the idea of going to Kampala.

And every single day Going to school became more interesting He planted a seed, that seed was Kampala And I always like asking people, what is your Kampala? Because when you have a Kampala to chase, somehow The vision becomes clearer, the goals become clearer oftentimes a lot of us, we want to be wealthy, we want to be rich, but we don't have a Kampala to chase. We just want money. And when you don't have that kind of path, you cannot draw a roadmap. So he gave us a roadmap to go to Kampala.

JK, can you hear me?

[Jim] I can hear you, yep.

[Daniel] He gave us a roadmap to go to Kampala. You have to go to school early in the morning. You have to sweep the compound on time. You have to ask questions in class when the teachers are asking you questions. You have to speak English all the time.

So when you have clarity of goals, then somehow you can design a roadmap to help you achieve it. So I always ask people, what is your Kampala? Because when you have a Kampala to chase, then you can develop a roadmap for it. For example, I know now you are on a mission of $40,000 in 40 days. That's probably, for the $40,000, it's your Kampala. So you're drawing a roadmap every single day. You're talking about it and things like that. So that's really pretty much how I became so obsessed with the idea of going to Kampala. Every page of my book, I was writing Kampala, Kampala, Kampala. And that's also very important. You have to be obsessed about your goals. You have to be obsessed about your aspirations. When I was abducted in 99 by the LRA, the Lord Resistance Army, what kept me going was the hope to one day go to Kampala, was the dream. I didn't want to just die during this very tough time in the bush.

So every single day I was telling God, I don't want to die before I see Kampala. I do not want to die before I see Kampala.

And look at me now. Now I'm in Kampala. That's just a little bit of a brief about the story. If I have to go deeper into the story, you know, it's going to take a lot of our time. So back to you.

[Jim] You say now you're in Kampala, now you see Kampala. No, you pretty much run Kampala, right?

Not not mayor not mayor of kampala yet or governor or whatever the the term is out there um yeah it had me thinking i don't know if i've heard the story in that way before and you talking about how your grandfather kind of said hey what's the point of school you know if all the point of school is to get money so you can buy food you can just have a farm and buy food you know you can have food yeah yeah and there's part of me in comparing that to what your teacher did and said no kampala you have robotic butlers on the plane like yeah it it makes me wonder i'm kind of scared to wonder in a way but like what your abduction would have been like if you had only your grandfather's kind of vision for what was going to happen you know if you didn't have that yeah exactly

[Daniel] You know imagine that because i think uh who knows probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

[Jim] And i was reading something in the new york times it was talking about why uh therapy culture might make us not have children and it talks about how often in therapy culture we blame our parents for what they've done to us or what they you know how they've hurt us or ruined us and i think you know when i hear your grandfather saying that to you i think about sometimes in my past and being like well i can't believe my parents instilled this pessimism in me but it's not their fault it's not their fault they went through stuff you know and so it's like and then what what a grateful opportunity that you got a different exposure from your teacher even if he fibbed a little bit he he instilled hope in you how has and how has that how would you say that hope has like not only instilled in you but how have you passed that on with other people. How do you think you're passing that on now?

[Daniel] I would say this, JK. As human beings, we are animals of progress.

A human being finds meaning when there's progress. A human being becomes really frustrated when there's little progress or no progress.

So in my approach to consulting, to training folks how to sell better, how to achieve their targets and things like that. I'm always more interested in, Again, going back to my story, to their Kampala, what is their personal Kampala? Why do they go to work every single day for this bank, for this insurance company, for these manufacturers, for this fast-moving consumer goods company? Because if they're doing it just for the salary, then probably that will never be enough. There's always going to be some kind of a limit that they can earn.

I always try to drive them to what gives them meaning are you doing a job that gives you meaning I always say I'm one of the luckiest people because I get to do things that, I love doing I kind of feel like I'm living my purpose so beyond the idea of them chasing their Kampala I think there must be an ultimate aspiration that all of us you know, aim for every single day we live our lives because if the aspiration is just to pay bills and to drive slick cars, live in a wonderful house.

We know the people that have had it all, but they still committed suicide. We know people who have had it all, but they still press the self-destruct mode. I think life is largely about purpose. Doing something that gives you the satisfaction that only you understand. The world may not understand it, but you do understand that when I am doing this, let's talk about, it's called the Albert Einstein phenomenon or the Michelangelo phenomenon.

These folks, be it Elon Musk now.

These folks dedicated their life on something that they really loved doing, and they did it for the rest of their life, and they found meaning in it. Michelangelo was a great painter in the painting. Was that Michelangelo or somebody else, the Italian guy?

[Jim] Painter, sculptor. Yeah, he did quite a few things.

[Daniel] Yes, sculptor. So he invested all his life in it. Einstein invested in life in finding physics, issues of gravity, and all of that, calculating mathematics. And then he found meaning in that. I read in his autobiography written by Walter Isaacson, he talks about sometimes locking himself in a house for six months just to find answers to some of his calculars or things like that. So I think as humans, we've got to invest our time and life to something that gives us that inner satisfaction that nothing else external can. So as I talk to people about chasing you Kampala, I always try to guide them I hope the Kampala you're chasing Has more meaning beyond Finances, beyond Accumulation of money and material things So I think A Kampala like that Would help you Probably inspire more people In the world Than just you being a show Of I have the BMW I live in a distant house I'm the sales warrior The entire Kampala knows me. East Africa, they know me. I'm a superstar. I mean, that's all...

It's a facade. It's largely an art. The things that give me so much meaning is when I touch somebody's life, when I give them an inspiration and courage to dare to pursue whatever it is that they're pursuing. I know, JK, you're pursuing making the world appreciate.

Connecting to our emotional self, connecting to our best self in terms of emotions and things like that. So you have the emotional defense system. You talk about this in a huge way. And it gives you meaning. It makes you happy. And I may not understand the level of happiness and joy you derive from it. And I don't have to understand it as long as you know I feel really good about it. I've answered it in a very long way. I hope I made sense.

[Jim] I think you did, but who knows what the audience thinks. But I think they'll understand.

[Daniel] Oh, man.

[Jim] It has me thinking about... Okay, so one question. What happens when you get your Kampala? You're in Kampala now. So your Kampala, you've

[Daniel] Already reached your.

[Jim] Kampala. What's your next Kampala? What's your new Kampala? Did I lose you?

[Daniel] I don't know. Is it my internet? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, Kampala internet sometimes is very frustrating, but I hope we can be able to write it.

[Jim] So is your new Kampala to have really good internet?

[Daniel] Quite interesting how you say that, but yes, I wish we could get some better internet. But I mean, some days it's really good though.

[Jim] Yeah.

[Daniel] Yeah.

[Jim] But I guess I asked that question because I think sometimes you think about Olympic athletes or some people that are super driven towards a specific goal and they achieve the goal and then life can feel really empty. So how do you get the new goal?

[Daniel] How do you find that motivation? I think we should never be one-dimensional as humans.

We get to do so many things, really.

Let me use myself as an example. I'm a sales consultant, yes, and I love being a sales consultant. But I'm a farmer, too. I keep some animals.

I put some coffee. I have 50 acres that I'm doing coffee on now. And when I go to the farm, it gives me so much fulfillment.

Just walking in the farm, it's a beautiful thing, connecting to nature and things like that.

I'm an author when I'm sitting to write a book I feel that satisfaction appreciation of the thought process that I'm putting in writing, so there's a series of things that we can do as humans I still want to give an example of your fellow American, South African American Elon Musk.

He has invested his life into so many things right now he has SpaceX that is doing very well, the only private business that is working with government to send people to the moon and to space and things like that. He has the solar company, the solar company that is, I think, one of the biggest solar companies in the world. He has the internet, Starling, he has the internet business, which is one of the biggest probably internet revolution on earth. He decided to even join government as an advisor on Doge, direction of government efficiency.

So I think as humans, we should not just be passionate about one thing, our contribution.

Life is greater. Life is up here when we are, there are these Cs. Number one, be a person of contribution.

You must be someone that can contribute to the greater good, be your own self. But number two, be somebody who cares. I think being a person that cares means that also you are making contribution to your own self. Be somebody who can collaborate. That's the C. There are three Cs. There's the caring, there is the contribution, and then there is the collaboration.

You can be a mainframe from which so many other people can find life.

You know? So many people can find life just by your mere existence. That you are a source of inspiration to so many people you can be a source of livelihood to so many people you can be a source of, capital for so many people you can be a source of knowledge for so many people so we must always think in we must never think in binary life is not my binary life is, multiplicity there's so many things that we can be able to do so the people that end up being frustrated after that career, let's say the athletes, and I would say it's an exception to the rule, not the rule, there are so many athletes that have gone on to do other greater things in life look at Cristiano Ronaldo, he has the hotels he has the air transplant business, he has the water business, he has the, gym business, he has multiplicity of business, so when he leaves a football there's so much that he can do You could say the same about Michael Jordan. You can say the same about this lady, Serena Williams. So there are so many sports people that have managed to reinvent themselves into other things after their sports career is done. So we must never look at life as a binary. That's really what I have to say about it. I really love that.

[Jim] It's kind of like a portfolio approach. If you just have one Kampala, then if you get it, then life can fall apart. So not even just about goals, but relationships as well and friendships. And if we become too reliant on one thing financially, emotionally, professionally or whatnot, then it can really ruin us if it goes away.

[Daniel] Yeah.

[Jim] I guess the opposite side of that is, though, if we have so many different goals and so many different connections and so many different activities.

It can be really complex and bring a lot of different conflicts and emotions, no?

[Daniel] It does. It does.

[Jim] I mean, you brought up the example of Elon Musk, so I'll talk about it. But I imagine at some point, he has a lot going on. He's got something like 14 kids from I don't know how many mothers, at least four, five,

[Daniel] Six.

[Jim] You know, plus the different businesses, plus he's CEO, plus he's involved with government. Uh oh your camera disappeared i hope you're still around um and it just what i've seen in my life is that as i get involved with more things it tends to make more conflicts very apparent because i like having the conflicts right so i like enjoying my work and also enjoying my like romantic relationship and also enjoy hanging out with friends and also enjoy time by myself. I like having those, but sometimes it can cause really intense conflicts, no?

[Daniel] Listen, Jackie, I look at it this way, and this could be very controversial as well, but let me say it.

When you're a man of means, I mean financial means.

A lot of conflict can be managed. sometimes part of the resolution to your conflict is you, It's going to a new country, going to a new location, a very, very mesmerizing place that can just calm your soul. Maybe sometimes you are having a conflict because your soul is troubled. You need to be in a place like Bali or somewhere in Thailand. And when you have the means to go there and you spend like a week, you come back rejuvenated and probably look at that point of conflict with a different perspective. So I think being a person of means helps you to resolve a lot of conflict much easier apart from political conflict I talk about, relational conflict you can be able to, sometimes just you can go with your person to another location like change of location, change of perspective different energy different energies, but if you have to resolve this conflict in one place every single time you're in the same location, the environmental hazard can bring a lot of anxiety.

Locational familiarity can bring a lot of anxiety as well so I look at solving conflict from that perspective that when you're a person of means, You can be able to buy Situations that gives you peace Temporary Temporary peace, Maybe But that temporary can be part of the bigger You know Solution You know, I've seen even the president of the United States Sometimes They go to There is that place That country residence That president go to what is it called Thank you.

[Jim] Curious if you know. I know. I'm just curious to see if you know. Let's see if you get it.

[Daniel] It's not Martha's Vineyard. No.

It's not St. Andrews. St. Andrews is a base. No, I've forgotten. I've forgotten. Camp David.

Why should I think about American things? I'm a Ugandan. I should be thinking about going to Queen Elizabeth. Or Mention Falls.

[Jim] Part of part of me kind of giving you the time was just so that people who are american especially listening realize that people in uganda know about camp david like yeah a lot of americans don't even know what camp david is

[Daniel] Yeah or you go to alaska you go to montana very beautiful locations and just kind of find that um so so sometimes you just need to get away for donald trump he goes to mar-a-lago um that's this part of that's in california so um is it in california, florida florida.

[Jim] Sometimes california doesn't even want to let him in but it's florida

[Daniel] Okay okay i know he has issues with uh with the governor in california but um so so i think sometimes change of location brings about a change of perspective and i think that's very important That's one side of looking at it. The other side of looking at it as well is...

You're not my source of happiness. Let's say we are in a brotherly relationship. I'm your brother and we're probably staying together. I'm not your source of happiness. And let's give you an example. Now, JK, you and your girlfriend. You're not your girlfriend's source of happiness. Neither is she your source of happiness. If you come into a relationship and you already traveled, you just get agitated by everything that I do as your partner. And then for me, I think that's another perspective we have to think about. That if you come into a relationship thinking that your partner is going to be the deriver of your joy and happiness, then you're totally cooked. Let me actually use the cooked. I want to use the F word, but I mean, I know they've understood it. But yes.

So I think sometimes we have unnecessary expectations of our partners, that takes them away from spending more time thinking about how they can make this world a better place, spending more time thinking about living and serving their purpose and.

Just having you around as a companion, as a partner that they journey and they do life with, they share ideas with. I think we should not think of life in terms of, if I do this, this person will be conflicted. If I do that, this person will be conflicted. I think when we look at life like that, then you are living with your person to impress, not to actually do life together. If you have to do life, everything that you have to be thinking about, what are the ideas? How can you help them achieve the aspirations?

How can you, you know, can what you say help? Can some of the support, can it be material? Can it help? and how can they also chip in with perspective, with ideas, with guidance, with material things that can help you also live your best life. So when you look at life like that, then I don't see a reason why we should have conflict in relationship.

[Jim] It's funny because I actually, when I see everyone is conflicted all the time, like just having so many conflicts going on in their life, and I call it emotional combat, When I frame it that way, I go, oh, she's not angry only because of me. She's angry because of me and this thing and that thing and that thing and that thing. Aha. Maybe I'm only causing 10% of that anger. Whereas previously I thought it was 100% of the anger. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So maybe there's something that's causing 30% of the anger that I can help her with.

[Daniel] Hmm.

[Jim] And maybe she doesn't even realize it's causing the anger that's

[Daniel] Deep what you're saying there is quite deep, how did you come about that concept like a emotional combat like where did it all start because it's deep i find it pretty profound to me.

[Jim] So when i was on so i first started with i feel leo is all just reflecting how do i feel right now and what's happening so it's very simple like i feel this i feel this i feel this this is what's happening then i started going into i think you filio which was on the app was how do i imagine this person is feeling in the moment and then when i really started with emotional self-defense it was about one-off attacks and one of the tricks to getting out of the attack was to say how i was feeling in the moment tell the other person how i imagined they were feeling in the moment and then if i did those too well i would feel connected with love but in those it wasn't just i feel angry that you did this it was i feel angry that you did this i also feel angry that i didn't sleep well last night i also feel angry that uh the stock market collapsed or whatever you know and when when i when i started to broaden the context for me and for the other person i realized oh we're getting attacked in lots of different directions Yeah and when i started thinking about not just a one-off attack when i started to think about this variety of emotional attacks that were happening all the time then i'm like this is not a self-defense this is more like being in combat where things are flying at me non-stop and when i remember to frame it that way i relax so much i realize this is i don't have to resolve the problem right now because even if i resolve the problem right now there's other problems happening so it's not fully resolved you know if the problem is i ordered the wrong food okay i can fix the food order but that's not the full problem there's other problems going on too that i have no control over so maybe over time those problems will change but yeah so i think that's how i kind of came up with it um also just feeling overwhelmed feeling overwhelmed like there's just a lot of stuff and thinking about being more public on the internet thinking there's good man some of these public celebrities and the DMs they get and the accusations they get and the people making fake porn videos of them. And it's like, what?

[Daniel] Like, oh my God.

[Jim] Being a celebrity is no joke, man.

[Daniel] No joke, man. It's sick. It's crazy. It's painful.

[Jim] But exhilarating, you know?

[Daniel] Yeah, I mean, there are some highs about it. There's highs of highs, there's low of lows as wealth so it is what it is isn't it I always say this is interesting let me say this let me see let me be careful how I say this because it's a sensitive conversation right now, Do you think that P. Diddy would be going through whatever he's going through now? He did not binge P. Diddy?

[Jim] So I'm not too familiar with the situation. I think he's in court for some sexual assault, physical assault.

[Daniel] Racketarian, sexual assault.

[Jim] Racketarian.

You mean if he had not been P. Diddy as in like the famous rapper P. Diddy?

[Daniel] Yeah, the famous rapper, you know.

[Jim] I don't know. I mean, I don't know. like you said about athletes, there are plenty of famous rappers who don't do that so I don't think it's because to be a famous rapper it means you

[Daniel] Do that but.

[Jim] Maybe based on his history based on what he learned as a kid based on his experience that being that famous may have amplified or made, you know brought so many different conflicts to his life that he couldn't deal with, I don't know yeah I mean I think

[Daniel] From an emotional defense system angle from an emotional combat perspective I mean that man seemed to have been really troubled having all those freak, those freaky freaky shows and things like that I mean that must be from someone that's either very deranged or someone that's really really traumatized and they're trying to find an escape route, And to them, they chose the extreme road because they can afford it.

From the context of emotional defense system, from the context of emotional combat, how would you explain your concept?

[Jim] You know, I thought the other day of a phrase. I said, we're not addicted, we're conflicted.

And this idea that we have a lot of conflicts in our lives and sometimes we become so overwhelmed by them that we just run away to other things. We think the cocaine is going to be a solution. We think the alcohol is going to be a solution. We think working 90 or 100 hours a week is going to be the solution.

[Daniel] Stop blaming me. I love work.

[Jim] I tried to put a number that was even too high for you, but I don't know.

Oh well so but okay there was a academic paper i read a couple months ago it talked about escapism and it says that it believes we do escapism for two main purposes one is self-suppression where we're basically we have these problems in our life and we're trying to avoid them and then the other one is self-expression where we have these problems in our lives and we're trying to uh stop thinking about them for a little bit so that we can come back and solve them. Like the example of you saying taking a vacation to Bali. You weren't saying let's go to Bali and forget that problems exist back home and then we come back home and everything's still shit. No, it was let's go to Bali so that I can maybe have new insights so when I come back home I'm better capable of solving these problems. I think some people can even use drugs that way. Some people use ayahuasca, some people use DMT, some people try to use even alcohol sometimes. Sometimes alcohol is not that I'm using alcohol to forget about life. It's I'm using alcohol so I can connect better with my friends. Like, that's actually not forgetting about life. It's, you know, maybe if I use alcohol, my friend uses alcohol, we'll have a real honest conversation finally, you know? So I think sometimes if you look at maybe what P. Diddy was doing or what some other celebrities do when it comes to sexual assault and the Me Too movement and some of this, it's just...

Feeling a tremendous amount of pressure and taking it out in this really unhealthy way that doesn't really solve the problems, just creates more problems for them.

[Daniel] Maybe in the moment it.

[Jim] Seems like it'll solve the problem, but it doesn't.

[Daniel] It never does.

[Jim] It can really catch up with people.

[Daniel] Exactly.

[Jim] It just adds more conflicts to the situation. Because if you do something like that, now you have to hide it because you might go to prison and now you're worried about hiding it. And so you have all these NDA forms and you have all these, you know, you become even more controlling over your communication with people and it can, it just adds more and more conflicts.

[Daniel] Yeah. I hear you. But I think in a situation like that, just coming back to our conversation, I think I was having a chat with a friend of mine recently, Marion.

So we're talking about Let's say I have quite a lot of conflicts going on in my life Jimmy you know The situation that I've gone through Losing my son, Having broken marriage And shortly losing my mom Both me and you understand The pain of losing my mother Shortly after I lost my mom You lost your mom, And then You have a friend that really cares For you and then they probably know you quite a bit as well.

Jake, are you there?

[Jim] Hold on for a second. Hopefully this audio comes back. Because it's a very key moment, and I don't want to have to edit too much in post. So please, Daniel, come back. Oh, well, I'll just talk until Daniel comes back.

[Daniel] Is it my internet or is your internet?

[Jim] Oh, you're back.

[Daniel] I think it is your internet. It's not mine. It was reconnecting on your side.

[Jim] It could be. It could be. It could be. It could be.

[Daniel] So I was having a chat with this friend of mine, Marion, and Marion was saying, You know, Daniel, sometimes when a friend or somebody you love is going through a situation, maybe all they need is for you to listen, not for you to give an opinion or to, you know, make a statement. Sometimes they just want you to be there. Maybe they just need a hug. Maybe they just need to know that they're not alone. That oftentimes we just don't know how to shut up. Like we always want to fix things that our urge and our desire to want to fix things sometimes end up creating more situations of conflict than if we just sat there and listened. And if somebody is really annoyed with you, instead of you trying to fix them, maybe it's better just keep quiet and let the emotions simmer. That if somebody is grieving, probably they've lost somebody, don't come and start giving them the classic line of it's God's will. It's a lot of stutter bullshit. But we like saying all these kind of things. And unfortunately, it ends up aggravating and hurting this person even deeper.

That when somebody is drowning, our classic conversation was that if somebody is drowning, stop teaching them how to swim.

You know try to get them out of the water you know, if you can get them out of the water get them out of the water don't try to teach them how to swim that's not the best thing and sometimes we're trying to teach people how to cope with different situations cope with their pain and that's the classic, way of us trying to help and in that classic way of us trying to help we end up creating an enmity with people that we love without intending to and then you find that they would rather stay away from you because of some of the things that you said in the in a good heart of trying to help them i don't know what are your thoughts about i.

[Jim] Think i mean i think it's a huge realization for me i think why i like the idea of emotional combat because it breaks me from that thinking that the problem that they are describing is 100 of the problem because for example, if someone comes to you and says, the problem is, you know, I'm just not comfortable with my living situation. And you say, well, I have this very nice house. You can stay in this house for free. You can stay here and it'd be great. And it's everything that you described and what you want in a house. And like you actually have a solution to the problem they described. But maybe that problem is only 10% of the problem. Maybe 90% of the problem is what they're, you know, they're not aware of,

[Daniel] Or they're not, they don't have the courage.

[Jim] To talk about it, whatever. And so if you actually solve the 10%, they're like, well, that's not going to fix it. So there can be that frustration.

I try to expand and see what are the other causes of the problem?

What else is going on? And what percentages are they contributing to the situation?

Because maybe, for example, the problem, they say, oh, the problem in a relationship, oh, the problem is that you just Don't care about me, or you don't spend enough time with me. Okay, and then he's like, okay, I'll spend more time with you. The problem's not spending time, the problem's that maybe they're really stressed out about money. And so if you spend more time with them, you have less money. And then they're more stressed out. And so, trying to figure out, or vice versa, right? So maybe you have a ton of money but you don't spend any time with them and they're like well i just you know you don't take me on vacation you're thinking well they just want money to go on vacation no they want to spend time with you or or they just want to break because they're stressed out about work so they want to go on vacation to relax and you're thinking oh we're going to go on vacation we're going to dance we're going to go crazy and the person's like no i just want to sleep.

So, trying to figure out what are some of the other problems going on that sometimes the other person doesn't want to say or doesn't even know to say.

So, like you said, kind of listening, but listening in a more expansive way. Listening where they don't even maybe know what to say.

[Daniel] Well, when you want to listen in an expansive way, then you're trying to fix things again.

[Jim] Or trying to connect to them and understand their situation. Because I think if I connect to a large extent about the different problems in their life sometimes I go there's not much I can do about most of those things so then my drive to like completely fix it kind of reduces a bit. I think we should still have some drive to try to help people but I think it's that obsession of if I fix this then everything will be fine. No not necessarily it's not going to be fine there's always going to be fights there's always going to be conflicts no matter how much i

[Daniel] Always try to use the formula i have a small formula that i like teaching people when i'm doing my sales training or when i'm just talking to people, i'm like if you want to get positive results in most of the things that you do you want to get positive results in terms of connecting in your relationship, you want to get a positive results in terms of your exertions in your work.

Critical things you have to look at the first one is that there are some questions you have to ask yourself the first one is what what is my attitude right now towards this what is my attitude towards maybe uh my work what is my attitude towards my partner what's my attitude towards this particular problem in terms of when you look at attitude you break it into four, your mental connection to it, cognitive power your physical, fitness to deal with that situation because sometimes you're physically constrained and all the anxiety and stress is written on our face because you're physically not ready to deal with a situation like that. The third one is the emotional alignment to it. Are you emotionally strong enough? When we talk about emotional defense system, are you emotionally strong enough to go through it? Do you have a thick skin emotionally to go through whatever it is that that is. And then are you spiritually connected to it? You know.

You say that a spiritual connection to a situation, getting a result, to solving a problem, it's you connecting to your higher self in terms of resolving this. So that's the foundation. And then for me, if that foundation is not strong in terms of the attitude, this is a very you're not going to get things right. So that's the first thing I look at. The second one I look at it, do you have the competence to handle that situation? If it is a job that you're doing, do you have the competence to do the job? If it is an emotional connection with your partner, do you have some knowledge? Do you have some competence to ensure that you can connect to this person better, faster, deeper? Because ignorance sometimes kills us. This gentleman talks about the five love languages.

Some people, they love physical touch, others on gives others want quality time, others want, act of kindness, you know, the five, I don't know the rest. But do you have the competence to do that, connect to that level, or to solve whichever problem you're dealing with, or to do the job that you've been given? If you don't have the competence, you end up getting anxious and you create more problems.

And then the third thing I look at is if you want to do something about it, do it. Don't procrastinate about it. Don't think about it. if you think that taking your partner out for dinner will solve the problem, take them to dinner. Like, do it. Execute. Don't think it. Just execute. Be somebody who is good at executing the ideas that you have. Does it mean that every time you execute, you'll get the positive outcome? No. But you'll always get a negative outcome when you don't execute. Every time.